Category: Daily Living
Hey all,
I've been pondering this for years, and I thought it might be interesting to see if anyone else has experienced this.
Now, I know many many blind people who have been lucky: their families encouraged them to be responsible in all ways from day one. They were encouraged (and required) to be as equal to everyone else as possible. To the greatest extent possible, their families did all they could to make sure that they were as functional as they could be.
My family was different. I grew up in a household where my parents, especially, but also my sister, believed it was "easier" and "quicker" if they just did everything themselves. I did my share of household chores, and looked after my own afairs, of course. But there were a myriad of little things which everyone else was allowed and encouraged to do that I was either never asked to do, never taught how to do, (even when I asked or demanded to be shown) or was strongly discouraged from doing. I was never asked to babysit. Never asked to help with more difficult chores (especially outdoors). My sister was given most of the responsibility in the household, even when I was both capable and willing to shoulder my half. When I would insist that I be allowed to try something difficult, I'd feel guilty (or be shamed) if I did it even a bit less proficiently than a sighted person might have. "See? I should have just done it myself". This was all meant wel enough, I think, but it bled over into my extended family. Even now, as a perfectly independent and successful adult, I feel isolated from my family. My opinion is rarely sought after; people don't really try to relate to me; they don't ask me how I'm doing or show much interest in my life--as though I'm from a different world. I feel alien.
Do any of you ever feel--futile as it is--that sense of inadequacy? No one ever asks me to go shopping with them, because my notions of what looks good are limited. No one asks me to look after their pets or house sit or babysit or bring some food to a party or help organize an event. It's not for lack of my putting myself out there; I've offered to help more times than I can count. But I always get the same thing: "Oh no no, we're okay, thanks though". I deal with it, and I understand, and yes, I do my best to show people that I am capable enough and can be depended upon. Sometimes I get pushy, in an effort to force people to realize that I'm not a child. This is not a self-pitying wallow about how sitting back and letting things happen to me isn't producing the results I want. I do my best; I'm not passive about it. I know that, with lots and lots of time, things will probably get better. But it doesn't stop it from hurting. Anybody get where I'm coming from here?
Yes Meglet. I completely understand and I can relate. to a tee. I will come back to this board and elaborate more, but for now, since I have a pounding headache, I'll say it's not easy, and you're definitely not the only one. It makes you feel inadequate as hell despite the fact you've been to places and done things that, whether sighted or blind, are admirable or at least respectable. yes. I completely understand. People who are closest to you make you feel inadequate at the basics of daily life, and there's no way of making them see it. I haven't really found a way anyway. If you figure it out, I'd be glad to know how you did. lol.
Yep, you're not alone.
I understand exactly what you mean, and have felt, and sometimes still do feel exactly as you do, accept I don’t call it wanting to be needed, I think of it as wanting to be invited, or seen.
My growing up experience was different, in that I was encouraged to do something, but like you something my family just felt I couldn’t do, so I wasn’t expected to do them, nor invited to do them.
Many times as a teen, my cousins would go out and such things, and I’d have to ask to go, I’d not be invited.
When they did take me along, public opinion would weigh heavy on them, so they’d stop.
Because of this, in my teens as an adult, I made sure to learn everything, and be as handy as anyone else within my abilities.
I found things to amuse myself, and hobbies I could enjoy with others I met, or alone.
Going to college was a wonderful experience for me, because I met other blind persons and sited persons alike, so I had a social life that was good.
Even with all of that, my family didn’t warm up, and still I’ve only got a few members that are open, but mostly they are closed.
There is lots to my situation, but I’ll just say this.
I believe disabled people have this burden to bare. What I’ve done is accept it, and I’ve stopped trying.
I did for a while, not a short while, but it is fruitless, because you can’t change opinion no matter how successful you are, and how well you can do things, you are still the blind girl.
I don’t know what you should do about making it feel better, but it won’t be changed, so you’ll have to forget that placement.
Just some thoughts.
I haven't experienced the exact things that you have from my family, but generally speaking I get what you mean/where you are coming from. It's interesting how I never gave something like this much forethought until I became more independent and self-sufficient myself, when I eagerly volunteered to help out with things only to have them say that it was ok, they have it covered. Yet everyone was so eager to help me out when I was going to college, and then everything changed when I decided that I am tired of school and I need some time off, leaning towards going to back part time some time in the future. Now, it's like they just pop the question of whether or not I have a job yet, whether or not I've been looking for a place of my own, etc. When I was in college none of these things were even questionable. I feel like I'm starting to run off topic somewhat though... I'm kind of ranting a little bit too, but know you aren't alone anyway. It is unfortunate, but if they haven't decided to take your offers yet I don't think they will. Especially if you have tried multiple times. Don't discredit yourself for not doing well for yourself though, because above all that's what matters more than anything.
Thanks, Bernadetta. I look forward to your elaborations. In the meantime, feel better!
Hmm, I was afraid of that, Wayne. I know what you mean about wanting to be invited. It's like...you're part of your family, but not really. You're there, you're present, but...you don't feel part of the structure...like if you vanished it wouldn't rock the foundations at all. It's a very pessimistic, broody worldview, and I don't waste much time dwelling, because you're right: public opinion is often unswayable. But I can't bring myself to stop trying. Not yet.
You won't for a while, but no matter what, it doesn't seem to work.
These that are already receptive will be, but the rest no.
I've written letters, did the one on one deal, used patients, been successful in some respects, but I still get forgotten. Smile.
That's a shame. You deserve better.
No, it is life. You'll get there.
I was talking about you.
I think most of us deserve better, but we have to be realistic. Expect the worst, be pleased when you don't get it, that sort of thing.
Like Meglet, my family didn't expect a ton of me. My mom would insist I clean my room, wash dishes, help stack wood in the shed and such, but a lot of the time, other people would just push in and do it if I was taking too long or not doing it their way. Nowadays, when my extended family gets together, I'm basically an extension of my father until I prove otherwise. I'm at a point now where I won't bother asking if I should bring food someplace; I'll just bring it if I know the occasion merits it. If you go on asking, you'll go on being told that everything's covered.
It is sad. It's stifling and stunting too. The worst part is that it's not malicious at all. It is, at worst, shortsighted. I'm thirty years old and I still get it.
I get this too. I always wondered how those blind people who talks about how they do so much and are invited and part of things that most of us are pushed from getting to do.
My family is worse than the public half the time, making me not enjoy visiting them in person as much as I do just over facebook or the phone. I get it from people at work a lot but not as much as when I first started working.
I lived in my little apartment for years before I finally learned to get out and go to places near my apartment. I asked my family about shops and stuff that might be near by but they always told me there wasn't really anything near me. There was a whole shopping center near me, they just didn't think it would be safe for me to go to it myself so didn't tell me. I have a couple of room mates who might drive me nutts most the time, but they treat me the way I wish to be treated. They don't even worn me if I am about to run in to a wall half the time because they figure I will find out soon enough. They understand that it is important to me to do things on my own and for myself. The girl is awesome with telling me what we are driving or walking by, what kind of shops are near by and even how to get to places if I ask. They don't hover and they don't try to take up my slack either. I wish my family was as great about the blind stuff as they are...
It made me mad one time when my driver that takes me to work and home refused to drop me off across the street at walmart because he didn't want me to walk home. I went in to my apartment and cried. It was so upsetting that i could not get people to let me do what I want to try to do. Now I will say that the street I have to cross is very crazy but there are people about I could have asked for help.He had no right to make that choice for me.
I find that I will sometimes get rude or impatient with people who try to do things for me I want to do on my own or who talks to me like a child and rush to get doors and stuff. I have waited for the next elevator a lot oftimes to avoy anoying people. I work on the nineth floor and now take the stairs up to the fourth just to get away from people who are jiddery with nerves and jumping to push buttons and shove me on elevators. I am more relaxed than I use to be but it is a constant fight and I do not agree that I should let them do it to make them feel better about helping me. Ok so I will let people open doors for me as long as they aren't trying to brake their necks to do it and what not, but I am not going to let someone make me fill like I am to dumb to be.
Remember when we went to your cousin's for Christmas Eve, and we specifically baked cookies for the occasion? Nobody even bothered to get them out of the car after we realized we'd left them there on the way in. And when we were there, we essentially sat there all night, totally ignored unless it was to make sure we were taken care of. Once our needs were seen to, we were part of the scenery. I like your family, but it pissed me off nonetheless.
Ouch, Nicky, I know how that one feels. Hell, I had a cab driver once who insisted upon fastening my friggin' seatbelt. I felt like I was about five.
A lot of people in my extended family ask what I'm taking in university, but they ask in this indulgent "aww, how nice that they let you do that!" kind of way. They don't really take it seriously.
Nicky, there's one thing to be aware of.
I don't know how formal your driving arrangement is, if it's contractual or whatnot, but if it is, then I'm afraid that, unfair as your driver seems, he was probably doing the right thing. He shouldn't be telling you that he can't drop you off because it's not safe for you though; he should, if anything, be telling you that he's hired to pick you up and drop you off at a specific place, and if he deviates from that and something happens to you, he may be sued for damages...not by you, certainly, but by someone perhaps acting on your behalf if you did end up hurt. Your frustration is something I can totally understand though, because regardless of the situation, he shouldn't be telling you that he can't let you off at Walmart because it's not safe enough. You're an adult, you have the right to make that choice, and to suffer for it if you're wrong (or profit from it if, as is typical, you're right).
And yes, Meglet, I do remember that. I didn't always used to bring food. A lot of the time I didn't, then ended up feeling especially stupid when other people did. No one sseemed to give a damn, and I guess back then I didn't give much of a damn either.
That's the only insidious part of it. For some of us, perhaps the less motivated or less self-conscious, it's a vicious circle. If others don't seem to mind, and will pick up slack without batting an eye, then it can sometimes seem like it's okay when it's not...and you might coast, making the spiral harder to snap out of when it finally comes time for you to make some sort of impact on those you care about, and who care about you.
It seemss like we all agree, we've all been in situations where the message seems to be, "you poor thing, we're better than you because we can see."
After sixty-eight years of life, I still get this kind of crap sometimes.
However, in the last analysis, it's how you feel about yourself. There ideas don't define you, they define them.
All I can advise is don't let the bastards get to you. Get dropped off at your apartment, then turn around and go to k-mart if that's what you want to do.
Bob
I've been there, many many times, especially with my family. I'll come back
later and post, but for now i've got to say that I've been very firm with my
family and assertive too. I do understand. I'll return because I need to sort my
thoughts. But all I want to tell you for now is that there is a way one can go by
this, though it takes time.
So last weekend there was a party with all 3 nephews who went to Minnesota to party together. My sister is in Florida for the winter; I bet everybody had a great time. One nephew said to me after the fact when all arrangements were made, did i want to go to Minnesota? I live in Illinois. Plane fare money would have been tight. What got me the most is this party was planned since last November. Nobody picked up the phone to invite me, so i figured why should I kiss rear and call them? Gets tiring, but like Wayne says this stuff can't be solved. I always try to remember their special occasions with a few dollars, but on my part cut backs have started. No, whoever started this topic, you're not alone.
Yes, there are the gatherings you hear about. Smile.
"He, we all got together last week and...." Yeah!
Meglet, I had to let it go honey. It wasn't emotionally good, nor productive for me. Sure, I think about it from time to time, especially when I hear about an event, or someone comes to town, like my sister, and I hear about how she was here after she's gone or about to board the plane.
I don't know about drivers and that sort of thing, because I never had that happen. It might be due to being male. If I say drop me here, I get dropped, period. Last I checked, I was grown.
I do have a few members as I've said that don't do it, but for the most part it is just how it goes.
This happened a lot when I was younger. I had to push a lot to get things. I wasn't sheltered like what some of you are talkig about but yes, could find myself left out more often than not.
Now, to quote the "it Gets Better" campaign they have out now for gay teens, it really does get better with time. And it isn't all personal attitude. Some of it, is the activities change. Also, I've found, if I have to put a touch of authority into a situation, people take it more seriously now than they used to.
I don't know if that makes any sense or not.
I understand where all of you are coming from. My parents on the other hand expected just as much out of me as every one of my other cibblings. To this day even my family expects me to help with the Thanksgiving dinner, I'm not frying the turkey, but there are still things they find me to do to make sure I am not sleeping in while they work. lol! I still watch the kids while they go have a drink and everythig else. But every family is different. Sometimes maybe its the culture at which you are raised. But if you wanna do something you can always come watch my kids and clean my house or cook. lol! I trust a blind person just as much as I trust myself, and I have multiple disabilities lol! Plus we learn best from those whom we can relate right?
when people treat you in the ways you've illustrated, Meglet, the reality is that their views will never change. with time, you may learn to accept that fact, and learn to live with it, or not, but the only person that could change in this situation, would be you.
I've been where you are, before, and I eventually found that letting go was the best thing I could possibly do.
I no longer tried to change the fact that others didn't seem to want help from me. instead, I'd bring things on my own, by having conversations with people about what was needed.
sometimes, someone else brought the same thing as me, cause I didn't make it known I'd be a participant, but that's just another reality of situations like these. that's really the only way to take charge, if it's really that important to you.
And as I've said a couple of times, Chelsea, that's what I've been doing. I did say I sometimes get pushy and just stic my nose in. But it's tough to know what people need if they won't discuss it with you. It's tough to just march in there and offer the help people won't even ask for in the first place.
I'm aware that it might get better but it also might not; I'm aware that people may not change their opinions of me no matter what I do; and, yes, I'm aware that you have to change, not everyone else. I've already stated all of that, I think. What I was after was other peoples' experiences and thoughts and empathy, not advice. I know what's to be done. I think we all do. But sometimes, it just sucks, and you want to talk about it with people who get it.
It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to change. It seems like from the sound of things you are doing fairly well yourself. What I would suggest is taking some time to think of what is important to you if you haven't all ready done this. I believe you want to continue your relationship with your family, so turning them away wouldn't be appropriate because what they are doing is not putting you in any immediate danger. What one person does will not work in everyone's situation because we are all different and our families are different. In any instance assertiveness is key which you all ready seem to understand. Passiveness will get you no where. Aggressiveness will give your family the wrong idea. Most times it is hard to find that middle ground and even if you have good intentions it may not be enough to get you recognized, or someone might take it the wrong way. When I came back for Christmas or some break off from the Louisiana Center my mother got angry because I wanted to do things by myself. She said she had a rite to do things because she cared about me. I informed her that that is true to an extent, but I have a rite to kindly refuse the offer and do somethings for myself so that she can relax and enjoy the time that I was home. It is often done out of love and charismaticness but there is a fine line once you become an adult. keep trying Meglet if that is the route you want to try, or even go as far as keeping them at a distance. It is hard to do but the more you expose yourself to it the more it will drive you crazy. These are just some suggestions. I don't expect for agreement from everyone, but keep in mind everyone's experiences are different.
You have a great point in that being aggressive will be about as effective as passivity. That middle ground is indeed difficult. I don't want to cut ties, or keep them at arm's length, or anything silly like that. They're still my family, I still love them and they still love me. It's just things like this that make me upset sometimes. Certainly no reason to stop communicating with them altogether.
when I was still living with my family, it was always a weird shift. Around my mom's side, I'm the college educated one. My grandma never told me I couldn't do anything, so I feel, mean as it might be, that I have a leg up on them because they're all rednecks, and I'm a college girl. This kind of allows me the push I need to make myself part of things when I might otherwise feel too helpless to participate. They're not really an exclusive type of people, so it's easy.
My dad's side of the family has a different feel. At Christmas day dinners, when my uncle, aunt, and granny were all in the kitchen helping, I was sitting on a couch, or playing with the kids, because what the hell can I do in a kitchen anyway? Educated I may be, but I'm still blind and would just get in the way, though that's never stated. Birthday parties for my little cousins were the worst. I couldn't help cut cake, get food, serve food, set up party crap, because I can't see. I'd have to ask my granny, (the only one I feel on par with), to give me something to do. Even then, it would be something small. So I'd sit at the picnic table at the park shelter, bored out of my mind while everyone else talked together and did things.
My granny likes to do things for me that I can do myself. I feel secure enough in my own self-worth to push back, and she gives in with a reluctant and uncertain, "Well fine." This was an on-going struggle all throughout college. My hoity toity uncle and aunt know about things like cale and water chestnuts in lettuce wraps. I feel very goash and uncertain around them, so I don't feel confident enough to barge into the kitchen and get in the way of their orderly preparations.
I guess it's all about how you feel compared to the people you're dealing with. There are family members who I'd never dare push my way past. then, there are family members that I feel more capable than, so I'm secure in doing my own thing. Mean maybe, but it is what it is.
Speaking to the scene of you sitting in a corner, and people making sure you're taken care of, I hate that. that's why I hate social gatherings so much. I don't know how to start conversations with people when I can't see them. If people are talking near me, I'll turn towards them, and try to jump in if there's an opening, but it's not easy for us to insert ourselves when nobody reaches out to us. I haven't figured out the secret of bridging that gap.
Now that I live across the country from my family and run a house by myself and feed a hungry boyfriend every week, I feel more capable, though that won't stand up in the face of my fancy family. I'm still learning patience and temperance when it comes to my boyfriend's mother who... is a typical mother. The only secret to all this that I know of is to find that fire in yourself that says, "I'm better than your sightedness" and let that carry you through.
I would never suggest anyone stop dealing with there family. Family is family bad and good, and there will come a time maybe when one of them has to ask you for something, but that is a maybe.
But I find letting the rest go works for me. If I don't get invited, I go do something else. If I'm at an event and no one wants to have a conversation, I stay until I'm ready to leave, and do so, or take a book and read. Smile.
I am still there and they see me and so we are family.
It really should be easy to get in to a conversation if you hear it and are following it, the probably is, they don't think of you as someone with an opinion.
I've done much in life, and can repair most anything, and have done so for family members, but I'm still the blind guy.
My exe's family didn't treat me as such, and education was stated here. They were less educated, no college, and whatever. I wonder about that sense it was brought up?
Britany, you are the acception. It is really beautiful, but I'll bet someone in your family set the pace when you were a baby, and that pace was followed.
The next thing you have is you weren't as you are now from the start.
I have some of that advantage, but not as much as you do.
Meglet, I totally hear you on this one. I've felt shut-out from my family my entire life. Oh, they did as good as most sighted families do. I too, was taught enough to be reasonably independent. But it was always the subtle things. Me offering to help, and always being off-handedly dismissed. The questions about my life once I moved away, but in that condescending, isn't that sweet she does all those things, attitude. Being told how much my family wanted me at an event, like a reunion, or Christmas, and then being completely ignored, even when i tried to join and initiate conversations. Everyone telling me how proud they were of me for the most basic life tasks, and it was like, thanks, but that doesn't mean anything to me. And yet, I've traveled more places in the country and out of the country than anyone else in my family. I've completed more of my education than any of my family. But because I'm not married with children, I'm somehow not an adult in their eyes, and honestly, even whenever I would get married (though I don't want kids), I still will never be a full adult in their minds. That used to really really hurt. Sometimes it does, but mostly now I'm used to it, and figure if they don't want to treat me as an equal, then they get to miss out on the joys in my life. I'll share them with the friends and others close to me who will truly understand, and who let me be an equal contributing member to those friendships.
You know I thought about this topic when we went out shopping today. What happened was I offered to help put stuff in the cart, and also offered to help load the stuff in the trunk and my grandfather said he was fine both times. So rather than tell him what I was about to do when we got back to the house, I got out of the car and grabbed the heavy 30 pack beer case and carried it in to the house without saying a word. I'm starting to wonder how often that has happened with me without me realizing it. Sometimes it takes some thinking outside of the box, and living up to the saying that action speaks louder than words. Try doing things without even asking and I bet they'll notice it. I don't mean do something like walk in to the kitchen and resume cooking something that someone has all ready started -- though the reaction would probably be amusing to see, but doing things without asking like taking out the trash, taking a grocery or two quickly and walking them in to the house without saying a word, etc.
Well good, at least I'm not alone. I get this from my Dad's side of the family more than any and I think it's because they just couldn't ever accept my blindness. It is hurtful, absolutely, especially, like others have said, the gatherings I see on Facebook after they've already happened, etc. My husband's family is really bad about this too but I don't really give a shit about them. Sure, I hurt for my husband and my son but it doesn't seem to bother either of them so I quit letting it bother me.
I can relate to all of this, specially with the sitting in the corner during extended fam gathering. ugh! its sooo frustrating...
Ryan, I have tried that, just doing something, helping without actually asking if they want/need the help. Sometimes I get away with it, and it's nice. Sometimes someone immediately comes running and starts saying, "I've got it," or, "don't worry about it," or whatever. Just depends on the day, and the person. Or, if I do something, like put away dishes, or clean something up, or whatever while a family member isn't around, they come back and are all like, "Oh wow, how'd that get done?" and when I say I did it, they're all, "Wow, good job!" Um, excuse me, it's not that hard to put away dishes, or groceries, or whatever. Oh well, it's how life is for most blind people and their families. Probably most disabled people in general.
Oh, and here's one. So you're in a family gathering and you get up to mingle, just to move around the room and talk to people like everyone else is doing. And if you're in a familiar environment, you can do it just as smoothly as anyone else. But the second you're out of your chair, you've got five people saying, "Where are you trying to go," "what do you want to do," I'll help you," etc. Um, I wasn't trying to go anywhere in particular, just to circulate like the rest of you fools. So sometimes it's easier to stay sat, though of course this only feeds the being ignored thing. It's about picking your battles. Some days I do, some I don't, depending on my mood.
Yeah, I understand the "oh we really want you to come for Christmas!" and subsequently being ignored thing. My parents will actually get angry if I don't come home for a holiday, but as soon as I get there, it's like I vanish into the wall. It's very odd.
Ryan, you make a good point about letting opportunities pass by, since it's so easy to get used to never being allowed to do anything. Wherever possible, I'll just take the initiative and do stuff, whether I'm wanted or not. It does tend to get their attention, if nothing else.
I'm sure this must be prevalent among other people with different disabilities, especially physical ones which don't hamper mental development or mental capacity, but which do make people uncomfortable. One of my second cousins has been in a wheelchair since forever, and while everybody loves her, she's not -quite treated the way her sisters are. She's very slightly excluded, in a way most people probably don't even notice but that cuts me like a knife each time I see it because I know how it feels. It's so illogical: okay, her legs don't work. Oh well. She still has a job. She still has a happy life. She's a functioning adult. And yet...that wall.
posting a topic and not wanting advice is just like going into a doctor's office, and saying, "I don't wanna hear what diagnosis he's gonna throw at me."
part of knowing people get it, is hearing them say, as I did, that letting go of trying, is often the best course of action to take.
nowhere did I suggest that Meglet tell her family to "fuck off," but I certainly don't agree with the statement that family is family, good or bad, so we should all just tolerate the things they do, that we wouldn't tolerate in a relationship, or on the job, for example.
Chelsea, you're dead wrong on one thing.
If Meglet asked for advice and then ignored it, then you'd be right. However, what she stated fairly plainly from point 1 was that she wanted commiseration, basically wanted other people to chime in with their experiences. This doesn't mean advice was completely out of the question or anything, but it pretty much dismantles the doctor's-office comparison.
Some people are more this way than others...they want to talk about something without necessarily wanting you to fix it.
Good point, greg. Now here's what I think. I"ve been where most of you have.
Being at the corner at gatherings etc etc. Usually what I've done is help without
telling them I will. Anyone ever been grabbed by a stranger because they want
to be helpful? Oh how I hate that! Wayne, I'd agree with you that family is
family, but just because they're family doesn't mean that one has to tolerate
behavior. They're people nonetheless. I"m not saying or suggesting their
wanting to do things for us is a reason to let go. But sometimes as much as you
try to get it across to them how capable one is they just don't get it. Do you
think that's fair to yourself? I think it's fair for them, because they're family. But
I see nothing wrong with a little distance, firmness or being assertive with
family. I think it wouldn't hurt to be fair to oneself sometimes, lol! I do think it's
upsetting to go to gatherings or christmas celebrations and being left at the
corner or alone. I come up to people and join in, I don't care lol! I don't know,
but I personally don't buy the they'll be upset if I don't come statement if I
attend and I'm being left at the corner, even if I've had a conversation about
this with them many times. So you know what? In the end I mak the decision
whether I go or not, and if they get upset so what, they'll get over it. It's not
my job to please people, even family all the time. I'm not saying this applies to
you Meglet bu that's what I've done. Because there comes a point where you
just keep on trying and it's the same results with people. And I did ed up
letting go but not for those reasons. I'm sure your family loves you, I'm only
speaking in cases where you assert yourself and it doesn't work with people
who say to love you and such.
What I mean is I wouldn't get mad and cut them off completely.
I have distance, it was necessary for my emotional self.
Sure it isn't fair, and sure, you tolerate
the behavior, because if you don't, and this is personal, you are the one that suffers, not them.
What I mean by that, is you go to the events, provided you are invited, when you are feeling up to it. You don't jump up everytime and make a speech about the wrongs that are being done to you, especially if you've written the letters, and did the one on one.
It is like banging your head on the wall, why do it?
She sees she's not alone now however, and some of the stories here make me smile, because I can totally relate.
I know others personally that go through it as well.
All I suggest is opinion. Great topic actually.
I just wish I knew why people do these things. It seems irrational and silly. If you grow up with the same people your whole life, like I did, they have no reason not to know how competent you are. why, then, do they still treat you like a child? And the public will sometimes do it, too. Just yesterday someone handed me something (a student, not much older than I am) and said, in this sugary voice: "Here you go, sweetheart!". I was baffled. Why is it acceptable to talk to someone with a disability like that? How do people rationalize it?
Chelsea, you are free to give advice and whatever else you'd like, but I am also free to state that that's not what I was looking for. I was merely saying that I already know what -I need to do for my own personal situation, so I'm looking more for other peoples' experiences than solutions .
As to the letting go bit, I think that looking at it like a continuum is more helpful than either cutting people off or tolerating everything they do. I like what someone said earlier (I think it was Wayne) about distance. You still participate, you still love your family and enjoy your role in that structure, but you don't put yourself through things you won't enjoy just because they expect it. Some of us are more at liberty to do this than others, of course--I haven't been out of the nest for very long and keeping my parents happy is still very important, financially and otherwise--but as much as possible, some sense of autonomy is necessary, I think.
They are not necessarily better than you because they can see. Yet the benefits of sight represent efficiency more readily than does our blindness. Cut the sighted people in your lives some slack as to not being as intentionally and personally affirming to your character by demonstrating it substantively. To a greater or lesser extent, most of our families operate this way. It's not bad or good. It simply means that they are grappling with an unknowable situation as best they can by cushioning the sometimes much more stark aspects of existence than we might wish. If you were most of them and had never experienced a lack of sight, you would be just as clueless.
That's very possible, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. I know a good many people--some of them related to me, most not--who actually get it, even though they've never been blind or disabled in any other way. They can look at the situation logically and accept that, other than a very specific defect, I'm just like them. So while I'm all for cutting people some slack, I don't agree that I'd be just as clueless as they would by default. Maybe I would, but maybe I'd be one of the ones who could look at it objectively and understand.
While they do exist, those are the very few in life. It will never represent even a fourth of the humans with which we might deal, especially our families.
You're right, but I think that if it's not impossible, if some people manage it without being prompted, then we can at least expect our families to try. A little.
I think they do try, it is just short lived, or in my experience. Change is difficult especially when they think differently.
Like you say, they know what you are able to do, but just won't appreciate it is the best way I can think to say.
I've not figured out why. I've asked, and they mostly don't see it, or in parents case, they call it love, and I can appreciate that to a point.
Think how it feels when you are able to do things the same people treating you like a child can't do, nor haven't the skills to do, and they do this to you? I've been there, and probably will be again.
To please and be please, you go sometimes, that is to be expected, and correct, but other times, just say you have plans. Smile.
No one can fault you for not always being available, now can they?
On the students part, I wonder if the tone of voice was actually condescending, or perhaps, they like you? Just a thought.
I agree with darksword.
There are some people who just seem to get it, no training, no similar family member with a problem, etc. they just flat get it.
They are very rare, but when you meet someone like that, it's like a ray of sunshine.
Bob
I know it wasn't a matter of her liking me, Wayne, because she doesn't speak to anyone else like that, and she didn't know me from Adam, so how could she like me? Most girls my age don't speak to each other that way. Had she been old enough to be my mother it might have been more acceptable, but seeing as we're the same age, it seemed very overdone and a bit condescending.
Yes, people like that are wonderful rays of sunshine, aren't they?
if you'll reread my first post, Greg and Meglet, I offered a solution to what Meglet posed. I said that, in the situation of a gathering of some sort, she could try bringing items herself.
last I checked, that sort of thing would be considered helpful by most people, rather than me telling her exactly what she should do, which is why I didn't say anything of the sort. I simply offered my experience and opinion, just like others have done.
And as we both said, Chelsea, you are at complete liberty to do that. All I did was explain why what you said was not specifically what -I considered helpful, because I wasn't seeking solutions to my own situation. Just because I didn't want what you offered, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't benefit from it.
I don't think there is a specific answer to the question that you put above but let me put together a scenario that will hopefully help you understand this from their standpoint.
You find a gentleman whom you really like and decide to settle down with him. Things work out. You get married, finish school and find a job, buy a house, and you get pregnant. You find out after the baby is born that he is deaf. This was not expected --- in fact, you did not find this out at the doctor's office because the doctor assumed that the baby didn't have any problems. However you noticed that when you called him, he did not look at you. He did not seem to notice you were there unless he was facing the doorway or saw you walk in the room. Now take a second and think of the hundreds of questions that might race through your mind. This may be hard to get because we are blind. We know what it is like to manage with it, how to compromise things so we can survive and enjoy life. But for a parent who can see and who does not have any experience with a disability, it is something that they better accept, but it isn't something they may know how to deal with. Even if they take something like a class of how to raise a baby, I would go out on a limb and say they probably don't go over what to do if they find out their child has a disability (please correct me if this is not the case). It isn't as well known because it is assumed before the baby is born that he/she will be like them. And once that time comes, all the parent can do is just try to do what they feel is best for the kid, and by chance maybe they will get a great advocate who will help them look at things from our point of view. Sadly this is rare as far as I know. Sorry I can't honestly answer your question, but one thing for sure is a little empathy and perspective taking can help understand why people are the way they are. In some cases you could be seriously wrong but I'm pretty confident that this is the case.
I see the point Ryan, but what if the child becomes able to do many things. The child goes to school, gets good grades, gets out of college, and gets a good job and becomes successful in his or her own right.
When that successful child goes home, she or he is still treated as if they have no opinion about things, even thought, the child is a successful person.
The are treated as if whatever they cook or bring, is not good to eat, even though that child cooks better than all the women and men in the room.
That child arrived at the family gathering, riding in his or her own car, with his or her own family, and was better educated, and such things than the lot.
Still blind though. Lol
I forgot to say. Maybe it is just plain sympathy?
I haven't figured it out, and probably never will.
My family was generally pretty okay about me being blind. There were some things that slipped through the cracks, but they were either corrected in time or I ended up never needing to do them anyway. Like mowing the lawn. Didn’t ever do it myself, though I’m aware that it can be done; I just don’t know how. But I moved away to Manhattan, and then to a condo in Minnesota, so didn’t ever have to do that. But the thing that irks me about blindness in general isn’t blindness itself; I’m sure others will agree. It’s how you’re what I call diminutized. You are, or should be, the equal of your peers regardless of your lack of sight, but you’re often talked down to as though you’re a child rather than a fully-realized adult. Or people will ask you questions, treat you or otherwise talk to you in ways they wouldn’t dare to do with so-called normal people. If you want to be completely and rudely ignored by me, be a sighted person and try to get my attention by saying something like, “Hey, blind man!” Figuratively speaking, you do this to me and I’ve just cast you into the proverbial abyss with no chance at all for a possible reconciliation. And I also hate it when everything you do is amazing even though you’re doing nothing more than anyone else does. I do not, for instance, think it is at all necessary to give a blind person a standing ovation just for graduating from grad school with the rest of his class. That is unnecessary. It’s demeaning. What you’re really doing in that instance is applauding your low expectations. It happened to me, and I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with that degree to this day. In fact, I got one too many emails from my alma mater, and I ended up being in the wrong mood at the wrong time and basically wrote to the president of the alumni association asking him to take me off the list because those years were the worst ones of my life and I simply didn’t want even to remember them. Was it nice? Was it gracious? Gotta be the first to admit that no, it wasn’t. Is it more than just slightly possible that I burned bridges? Gotta say the answer to that one is an affirmative. But frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.
At Johndy: that post reminds me of this one time when I wa at a bar, and some drunken guy walked up to me and said, "hey dude! Check this out. I can read the Braille signs on the men's and women's bathrooms!" Now, if the Print hadn't been right there I would have been slightly impressed, but that was so ridiculous that it was actually amusing to me. That's like saying you can read directions to a product in Spanish when the English directions are right there. Hahahaha. I guess sometimes people try to understand and relate to us which can be cool but sometimes it's unnecessary.
I helped wash dishes, clean up the kitchen, wash the cars, etc. But yeah, there were lots of times when I would ask how do do something and my folks would just go, "it's kinda hard." and that was that. Pissed me off.
Some people don't know how to explain things in a non-visual way. It's sort of the same thing as when you ask a person for directions and they point and say, "it's right over there."
As for this topic, I can definitely relate to a lot of what's been said as well. At gatherings with my extended family, which, thankfully, are rare, it seems like everyone just wants to shove food at me and then bail. I've gotten to the point where, when I do see them, I don't even bother to start conversations unless they come to me. I have a few relatives who also seem to think I might blow away or something if they don't constantly have their arm around me or clutch my hand like it's a lifeline. I try my best to grin and bear it, but it's annoying when people see you as a fragile object that might break at the slightest provocation.
That's just my mom's side of the family. I usually see them about once a year, at least all of them in a big group like that. My dad's side of the family is a whole other story. I don't see them much, either, but when I do, they get in my face and demand to know why I haven't gone to college yet. They tell me I'm making them look bad. then they storm off and engage with someone else, leaving me alone in the corner.
I recently had a pretty bad scare when my niece was born very premature. All I could think of was the countless blind people I've known in my time who have ROP as a result of that. Not because of being blind, itself, but because I feared for her well-being as she grew up and dealt with my family. Treatment like that can be brutal on a child's self-esteem. Plus, I wouldn't want anyone to compare her to me, because that kind of pressure isn't healthy, either. Thankfully, my niece is doing very well now, and has no signs of any eye problems.
I can definitely relate. I told my mom about my career choice as an early childhood educator and her words were, "That's going to be hard for you." well, that one sentence really sends the message about her piss poor attitude toward blindness. She wants me to go into something music-related or counseling, and I'm not ever planning to do either of those, as I don't enjoy performance due to what I call, "violin burn-out," after high school, and one has to have at least a master's degree to practice as a counselor. I'm not bothering. Plus, (and i've flat-out told her this too), it's not her decision, not her life, and if she doesn't agree with that statement, then it really does suck to be her. Okay, I made that last part up, but the first half of that sentence was true. bottom line: I'm sick and tired of hearing, "It's hard for you." She's not me, so how in the hell would she know? *growl*
Reyami, I find it interesting your Mom would want you to go into counseling. That's what I'm planning to do, and most sighties I know think a blind person can't or shouldn't do counseling because we can't read visual body language. They forget there's a whole lot more to reading someone than that. I actually had a heck of a time finding a place to do my internship for my Bachelor's degree because of this misconception, and I imagine the same will be true when it's time for a Master's level internship. It's interesting what sighties think of us and our career choices, and what is and is not hard for us. I also think that often, they don't realize the message they're giving us about their own terrible attitudes about blindness. My Dad once told me that of me and my two older sisters, I was the last one he thought would attend and graduate from college. Niether of my sighted sisters did. He thought he was giving me a compliment. The message he thought he was sending was that he was proud of me. The message I received loud and clear was that, of course the reason he thought I'd be the last one to do that was because I am blind and they are sighted, and he didn't think a blind person could be successful. He had no idea why I was upset with him for what he'd said. Our families will never actually come out and admit they didn't, and sometimes in some cases still don't, have faith in our abilities as blind people. Most families are good at giving lip service that they believe in us, but when push really comes down to shove, what they say and do shows us differently.
Meglet, you could have been writing about me in your first post. I get you all the way down, and it's bloomin annoying! I'm sorry you didn't have a super positive experience with SW's family. i found that some sort of glossed over me, but with the majority of them, that wasn't the case.
What I've found helped me was to branch out, take up a completely different hobby and build a new subset of friends. The patronising is still there, but to a much lesser extent. For example, the last cat show i went to, I was the only one who brought food for breakfast, so I ended up feeding the whole lot of us rather than it being a bring and share affair. Normally youd expect the "Oh, isn't she great for bringing food, bless her!" routine, but with these guys, they were like "Yep, whateve. Um, food? Gimme!" No change in their behaviour from when another member of the group brought it the week before.
It's hard to find a balance, and it's pretty crappy while it's going on. We need to discuss this in more detail in one of our chats!
Yes, I felt those exact feelings. I felt them for the world as well, and had quite a bit of resentment and animosity for society in a sense. I felt left out, not wanted, and as if I did not belong. There was one summer day, I felt so discouraged, I sat in my room and wept. I was not sheltered by my immediate family, but was never given many responsibilities that other children were allowed. I desired to babysit for the longest time, and never had the opportunity. By the way, I come from a large traditional Chinese family. Some of it had to do with personality, and realizing what it is, and truly who you are not who you desire to be. I definitely understand my family slightly better, and have less resentment. The other part of feeling you are incapable because you are blind, can not be helped. Realize there are others outside of your family who truly knows you for who you are, and they appreciate and desire for you to belong with them.
Sometimes it gets to a point where you have to ask yourself is it worth the pain, the tears, and heart break to try to fit in and please people you cant get through. You might have to separrate yourself from that situation and people involved and just live the best you can. Be cause I found from personal experience it does not matter what you accomplish or how successful you become, certain people will never see past your disability because they are so closed minded and they will only bring you down.
Yep, it's called Confirmation bias.
precisely, southern.
poster 58 is exactly right, and stated very well what I was trying to get across in the previous posts I made.
as someone who has multiple disabilities, it took me a long time to learn how to not accept not being allowed to do things, and just do them, without asking people what they need, or whatever.
it hurts that we're treated that way, at least for a time, but you'll get through it, and hopefully find growth in it, rather than a ton of sadness.
no, you are not alone! for me, i tell my friends or family off! lol not curse them but like ryan i just do it. forget asking if they need this that or the other. just cook, bake or pitch in cash or supplies for gatherings. ask if there is going to be a party? or suggest of one. dont get pushed around. be assertive. next family event bring a dish or a cake you baked.
There are two issues here, inclusion and contribution. The scenario I will use is family party.
If people are excluded from a party by their family because they're blind, they have good reason to feel left out.
If they're able to go but not asked to help out with the organisation of or preparation of the party, or if their offers to help are rejected, there is no need to feel bad about it. You intended to help so that was good of you. If those you intend to help don't want you to help them, that's their choice. There may be somebody else somewhere in the world who wants your help. Go and help them. Somebody on this site needs help getting rid of wasps for example.
I have read a load of threads on this site where people have made blind people angry by offering to help them when they didn't need help. If you are one of those blind people and somebody subsequently rejects your help, at least you now know how it may have felt for the person whose help you rejected.
Meglet, definitely know this feeling.
As a young child, my parents and family were ones who said they were wanting to treat me like a every day, normal, kid.
This being said, this didn't happen. I'm 18 years of age, and well, I'm pretty dumb when it comes to daily living skills. I can admit that I should have asked more how to do this or that, but in the process of my short life, I wasn't taught much. As much as I love my mum, I was recently told that "Well, I didn't want to teach you all of this daily living stuff, because I thought someone else would." That's refering to the training centers, you see.
Sure I can wash a dish. We don't have a dish washer where I come from, haha. Sure, I can heat up food in a microwave. But there's a whole ton more I could get to know.
So yes, I can honestly say, I know where you're coming from here. And I understand the frustration you may have with others and how they tend to want to help. Their ententions may be good, but as one once told me, "It's not about ententions, results matter."
One of the problems with me is that I'm too shy. While there have been multiple times I have wanted to say to one how I need not their help, generally I am quiet. I'm not sure if that is because it's just in my personality, or rather because I was taught to always respect others. Who knows? I do say though, I do tend to be really shy at first to most, so I'm assuming it's a bit of both, honestly.
Blindaudio,
i'll say this much, and I have said so before in other places. You can learn this, step by step, but I have a different perspective than many on this site. Many sighted kids are woefully blitheringly ignorant when it comes to very basic things. I'm a parent of a 20-year-old now, so I have seen more than my share. When I was younger, I just assumed all sighted people always did things better than I, even though I was what some may call independent, I suppose. If you can microwave your food, you're as good as many sighted college kids. If you're putting soap in the washer and dryer sheets in the dryer, again, as good as them.
Often what kids don't know how to do anymore far outweighs what they do know. I gave my daughter a pretty practical education in that department when she was growing up, but no such luck with many of her peers.
This notion that you haave to know all of this 'skills' first is hooey, junk science. Truthfully, you need to know what you need to know. It would shock you how many kids sail through high school AND college and don't know a thing about cooking. Or a lot of other household tasks. This expectation that if you're blind you're supposed to be already-competent at a litmus test list of tasks, is complete pseudoscientific, faith-based, Ken Ham Creationist-style bunk and worthy of such a dungheap as that.
You learn what yu need to learn. I suppose people living in Florida would have rightly seen me as kind of a landlubber when we first bought a home down there, and I knew nothing about pool repair and maintenance. If we had some of these junk pseudoscience Ken Ham creationist 'blind skills' types, I suppose they'd say I wasn't independent because I didn't have 'pool repair' skills. Well shit. Guess the world was gonna end. Except not: a few Saturdays, a few mistakes, some choice words, and the help of a buddy who knew a little more than I did, and we got the troubles fixed.
Extreme example so some, maybe. but the point stands: You only need to learn what you need to know. There is no litmus test. You could be shown in five minutes or less how to heat a can of soup, make Top Ramen, boil hot dogs. There's a lot you can learn very quickly. And if you know the things I just mentioned? You know a lot more than many college kids who are sighted. So take my advice and skip the creationist-style junk science types and learn what you need for the situation you're in right now, or the situation you intend to be living in.
Hmm, you're an interesting guy, Leo. Gotta tell you.
Will keep this in mind for food for thought.
I was taught laudry when I was quite small. I do get confused on how to put color with color, but that's a topic of another discussion.
Leo is spot on on this one.
If you can't do something, and it needs doing, either hire it out, find a buddy who knows how to do it, or try to do it yourself.
I've learned a hell of a lot from failed experiments. Ever tried to make a pie from scratch? I did, and the results did not resemble a pie at all, but it sure tasted good.
Bob